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was with one of the former heads of the u.n. in iraq begging joe biden to call him as a witness to talk about the lack of wmds in iraq. they refused. so there are key members of this administration, the secretary of state, john kerry, the vice president, joe biden, who also have to answer for their role in this. people like wolfowitz, cheney, rumsfeld, should not be given any kind of honor in this society. they should be held accountable for the u.s. soldiers that were killed and i think it's many more than 100,000 iraqis that were killed. >> i'm sure. mike, former bush speechwriter david frumm has written a column in which he reveals long conversations held in 2002 with dick cheney. according to frumm, the two men talked less about promoting democracy and how iraq might become a source of oil to the united states. mike, was cheap oil really at the heart of this invasion? >> you know, i wouldn't go that far, martin, but i would say that fears that the persian gulf could be disrupted by saddam and oil, therefore, become much more expensive were certainly part of it. i'm not a huge fan of most
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